Friday, October 02, 2009

Difference of Opinion

I fully agree we have the right to open carry, but it does have its problems.

1. It may not deter the bad guy, it may attract him. There has been more than one case of police officers murdered, for their handguns.

2.Carrying open, could make you the first target, as you will be a perceived threat.

3. 98% of the people are sheep, and for a lot of them a firearm scares them, some even get scared or frightened when they see a police officer with a gun. For the most part people will accept what they can't see, for example concealed carry, they may know it's legal, and people may even be carrying guns around them, but they don't see the guns. Yes they are in denial, but it is the object that frightens them, they really do believe that the gun is the threat not the person carrying it. People don't like to have things forced upon them, and they tend to resist, yes even sheep. So when we try to force them to accept our right to open carry, and they are frightened, might they then vote for the politician that says we need "reasonable gun control laws for safety", or they might write that check to Sara? Yes there are 70-80 million gun owners in the country, but they fall in two distinct camps. There are "Gun Owners" , & "People who have Guns", and the latter make up the majority. Even the "Gun Owners" are splintered due to their interests. I've had hunters tell me if assault weapons were banned, the government would leave their hunting guns alone, I've had skeet shooters tell nothing wrong with waiting periods, as they had to wait 6 months to a years for their skeet gun, and it goes on and on. So "Anti Gunners" and "Gun Owners" are both minorities, and people who don't have guns, or may have a couple are the majority. They may stay pretty neutral if we don't force our guns upon them, and many of them can even be converted once they gain the knowledge through education and training, weather it's with an Instructor, or just an avid gunny willing to teach them, some examples, are found on the blogs posted to the right. Usually under the title of "New Shooter Report". I've had students that burst into tears the first time they fired a gun, some the first time they even handled one, but once they gained the knowledge, became avid shooters and owners.

In closing if you feel you must open carry for whatever reason then do so, but remember you may well be one of the best recruiters for Sara Brady, as most people do believe what they don't know won't hurt them, keeping it concealed they don't know and are not frightened by it.
The battle for our 2nd Amendment are far from over, and it will continue on the Federal,the State, and the Local areas for sometime.
Those that know me, know I'm an avid supporter, I have donated more than I can afford at times, to the fight over the years, but I know it's the right thing to do, even if it means I have to sell a gun or two to make up for the check I wrote.
I for one would prefer to keep the other side weak, that we win as easy as possible.
Rather than force them to accept it, I'd rather ease them into it as it were, but that will take time.

added 10/5/09 Per Massad Ayoob:
"Concealed Means ConcealedA very few people carrying guns for the first time feel an irresistible urge to let others see that “they’ve got the power.” First-time carriers and rookie cops, usually young in both cases, may fall into this trap. It is a practice to avoid for several reasons.In most of this society, the only people the general public sees carrying guns in public are uniformed “protector figures,” such as police officers and security guards. When they see someone not identifiable as such, who is carrying a lethal weapon, they tend to panic.
This makes no friends among the voting public for the gun owners’ rights movement—you do not make people into friends and sympathizers, by frightening them—and can lead to a panicky observer getting the wrong idea and reporting you to the police as a “man with a gun.” This can lead to all sorts of unpleasant confrontations.
Moreover, a harasser who has picked you as his victim and knows you carry a gun can create a situation where there are no other witnesses present, and then make the false claim that you threatened him with the weapon. This is a very serious felony called Aggravated Assault. It is his word against yours.
The fact that you are indeed carrying the gun he describes you pointing at him can make his lie more believable than your truth, to the ears of judge and jury.
MCRGO, Michigan Coalition of Responsible Gun Owners, is directly responsible for getting reform concealed carry legislation enacted in their state, and has been in the forefront of fighting for the rights of armed citizens in that state. MCRGO’s Steve Dulan, in the organization’s Weekly E’News of 6/23/08, had some cogent points to make on the topic of private citizens carrying handguns visibly in public:“Open carry of firearms, subject to MCL 750.234d, it is legal to carry a visible pistol in public. MCRGO has not adopted an official position on this subject,” wrote Dulan, who continued, “I agree with Ted Nugent and many others that it is a bad idea in almost every situation.
Tactically, you are giving up the element of surprise should you face a deadly force situation. Furthermore, you run the risk of being called in to 9-1-1 as a ‘man with a gun.’ I have been on police ride-alongs when this call comes over the radio. It creates a very dangerous situation for all concerned. I do not carry openly. I have a CPL (Concealed Pistol License) and take care to choose a gun and holster that, along with appropriate clothing, allow me to keep my gun concealed unless/until I need it to save a life.”As cogent and valid as Steve Dulan’s arguments are, it still makes sense to have legal open carry available as an emergency option. If the wind accidentally blows your coat open and reveals the gun, an open carry provision assures you have committed no crime. If someone who has not yet felt the need to get a concealed carry license suddenly begins getting death threats, open carry provides an emergency avenue of self-protection until the paperwork can be processed to acquire the license to carry the weapon discreetly out of sight."


Josh said...

I used to have the same view of open carry as you do in this writing. However due to some of the conversations that I have had and heard over on forums and the podcasts have come to think that the more that people open carry, the more it will become the 'norm' and people will be less scared when they see them.
Saying that, I do not open carry as a common method in public. I do open carry around my farm and did Open Carry the other day when I went out for lunch at a gun show.
I believe that if you're going to open carry, you MUST be dressed NICELY, I was wearing some nice 5.11 pants, clean shoes, a button-up long sleeve shirt, had my hair fixed, and my NRA Instructor's patches on the sleeve displayed proudly. While at lunch I got no 'funny looks' and actually got a few approving smiles from some of the people in the Qdoba that happens to be downtown next to the UK campus.

The Duck said...

I agree to a point, and some areas are more accepting about it.
I think before we open carry we have to consider where we are carrying. Consider this if you follow the link, what if several people complain to the manager of the movie house, and in response to the complaints he posts a "No Guns" sign, while in Kentucky it's not against the law to ignore the sign, it is in Ohio. Now once the sign is up I have just created another place I can't carry. Plus don't forget reasons 1 & 2

Josh said...

I agree, that is why I dont open carry normally.
Tactically, it is not a good decision. But in some areas, I can see how it can be a positive thing.

Axeanda45 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Axeanda45 said...

Tactically not a good decision????? please provide actual sources of facts, not opinion.......

Please show me ONE documented case where a civilian was open carrying and had his/her gun stolen.

I'm waiting..............

Please show me ONE documented case where a civilian, open carrying has been the first to be shot in a robbery, etc......

I'm still waiting.......

You have NO PROOF! only opinions.

Sure, cops are targeted, but they are in situations where the bad guys are desperate and KNOW they are going to jail, etc.... if they dont get that gun and take out the cop before backups arrive, they have nothing to lose. Now, how does that translate to me, a civilian..... open carrying at Walmart???????

Another point... Since when is surprise a defensive tactic?

The Duck said...

As I said at the beginning of my post it was in fact my opinion but here are some examples of some security gurads that got shot: (of course a bag guy would never shoot an armed citizen, gee what was I thinking?)

Since you made your rant, go ahead and carry I didn't say not to, and go ahead and scare the sheep.

by the way do you have proof it hasn't?

I know of one officer in Michigan sitting in his car doing reports, and a guy who had been robbing banks drove up shot the officer, and took his Berreta, as he had found the shotgun to bulky during bank robberies.

As Col Cooper said in his book Principles of Personal Defense, do what they least expect fight back, that would a Be using Surprise as a tactic,

The Duck said...

For the officer shot in Michigan:

Bad guy murdered him for one thing he knew the officer had a handgun

Axeanda45 said...

Both of your examples were NOT civilians as requested. So..... you have shown me NOTHING.

Axeanda45 said...

Scare the sheep, that is funny. That is their right to be scared of inanimate objects and has absolutely NOTHING to do with me. I have the CONSTITUTIONAL right to bear arms. It doesnt matter if they or you dont like it. I have been carrying openly for approx 1 yr. My experience so far has been about 90% good (being able to educate people who asked me about why I had a gun) vs a couple idiots/scared hoplaphobes.

Hmmmmm........ 90% good, 10% hoplaphobes........ I think that say's more than all your arm-chair thinking about it and not actually doing it and parroting others who havent done it either. Stop spreading someone else's opinion and start actually practicing things before you try to tell us what is a good or bad way to do something .

Now for the disclaimer............ MD, I very much respect you. I took my CC course from you and will take more courses from you in the future.

The Duck said...

Well you have your opinion, & I have mine. I'm not spreading someone else's opinion, just one that I share.
Yes you have the Right to carry Open, as do I, but I perfer to keep mine concealed for the reasons I stated. (Hey if it works for you do it, perhaps in the long run you'll be right and convert more to our side than go to the other.) If you disagree that's fine too, that's why we call it America. So we will agree to disagree on this subject?

Axeanda45 said...

You mean I cant rant about it anymore? Fine ; )