Friday, February 04, 2011

Antis so belittling

Beware of fake experts on Say Uncle

So I send the guy an email:


Your Instructor was an idiot, and truly had no business teaching

Of course you are clearly anti gun, and should likely just get a whistle or maybe pepper spray, or just roll over and be a victim, it is a choice afterall

Now being a reporter and all, I guess it would be to much trouble to look up all the times guns have been used for self defense, but you seem to have made upp your mind, and why clutter it with facts

Of course many times guns are used to defend and are never reported, I had it happen twice, but both times once they saw the gun they left, no one got hurt, or robbed or died, and I didn't call the police.

Likely lead me to become a firearms instructor

His response?

A recent study at the U of Penn found that
people carrying guns were 4.5 times more

likely to be shot during crimes than

unarmed persons.

Most people panic in the clutch and very

few can shoot worth a damn.

Otherwise, you need to work on reading

comprehension, or perhaps practice counting

higher than two. There are more colors than

black and white.


The U of Penn Study:
Penn researchers investigated the link between being shot in an assault and a person’s possession of a gun at the time of the shooting. As identified by police and medical examiners, they randomly selected 677 cases of Philadelphia residents who were shot in an assault from 2003 to 2006. Six percent of these cases were in possession of a gun (such as in a holster, pocket, waistband, or vehicle) when they were shot.

These shooting cases were matched to Philadelphia residents who acted as the study’s controls. To identify the controls, trained phone canvassers called random Philadelphians soon after a reported shooting and asked about their possession of a gun at the time of the shooting. These random Philadelphians had not been shot and had nothing to do with the shooting. This is the same approach that epidemiologists have historically used to establish links between such things as smoking and lung cancer or drinking and car crashes.

Oh yeah if someone I don't know calls and ask if I have guns I'm going to say what?, "Sure buddy, and the house is empty from 8am to around 4:40pm

My reply to his email:
Yeah the Dept of Justice Reports 800,000 crimes stopped by armed people each year, and there are several other studies that put the number a lot higher.

Yes sir there are a lot of shades of gray, and yes I can count beyond two, but anytime I do try to reason with your type it turns to insults.
Have a great day, and keep living the dream
Yeah tell the Ladies at the Lane Bryant in Chicago about the U of Penn study.
As you said it's not all black and white.

His reply:
I'm fairly sure the number of crimes committed
with guns dwarfs that statistic.

My Reply:

Well if the FBI Uniform Crime report has an average of 1,400,000 violent crimes reported each each year (Not all involving firearms) 800,000 defensive Gun uses is a fairly significant number.

The DOJ is the most conservative of the DGU studies

His Reply:
Sorry, you're comparing apples with
oranges. Most crimes stopped by gun
use are robberies, vandalism and
various kinds of malicious mischief.

Most often by people in homes or
businesses, about which I said
nothing. Except that I'd have
shot an intruder in my house
at 2 AM.

The issue is crazy people and violent
criminals in possession of weapons
no civilian has a legitimate use for.
That, the gun cult refuses to deal with.

My Reply:
Then why not work on laws controlling those people instead of the devices?
Also what supports your theory that DGU is limited to home & business, and is limited to robberies, vandalism, and mischief?
Here is a real apples to oranges, Happy Land Fire, you may recall it if not here is a link:

Now if he had used a Glock semi automatic with a 30 round magazine, oh imagine the cry for more gun control, but since he used a couple gal. of gas, it was "well no law will stop a nut case"

Cause G-whiz Gasoline was not designed to kill, and guns are, I would also imagine fewer than 87 would have died that night had he, had a Glock.

So what laws would you want passed if Loughner had used molotov cocktails?
You know we need to control crazy people, and violent criminals from aquiring weapons like gasoline

I take this as he final reply:

I don't think any of you gun nuts
are capable of logic.
Common knowledge. When people
are set upon by criminals, they file
police reports. Those reports are
often printed in the newspaper.

The great majority--indeed, almost
all where I live--happen in homes
or businesses. Which is pretty
much where the money is.

Of course most people with
concealed carry permits don't
actually carry, as guns are
uncomfortable, and in many
settings, embarrassing.


So I just could not help myself but send him this:
Percentage of Violent crimes reported just at 50%
Percentage of Property crimes reported just at 40%
Bureau Of Justice

The BOJ also has this summery
In 2009, U.S. residents age 12 or older experienced approximately 20 million crimes, according to findings from the National Crime Victimization Survey.
-- 78% (15.6 million) were property crimes
-- 22% (4.3 million) were crimes of violence (more than triple the FBI report)
-- 1% (133,000) were personal thefts
In 2009, for every 1,000 persons age 12 or older, there occurred

--1 rape or sexual assault
--2 robberies
--3 aggravated assaults
--11 simple assaults.

Murders were the least frequent violent victimization -- about 5 murder victims per 100,000 persons in 2009.

For more information about homicide, see Homicide Trends in the United States and Data Online

The FBI's Uniform Crime Reports Program (UCR) collects information from local law enforcement agencies about crimes reported to police. The UCR crime index includes seven offenses; homicide, forcible rape, robbery, aggravated assault, burglary, larceny-theft, and motor vehicle theft. According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Uniform Crime Reports --

The violent crime rate decreased 6.1% from 2008 to 2009. From 2000 to 2009 the rate fell 15.2%.

The property crime rate decreased 5.5% from 2008 to 2009. From 2000 to 2009, the rate fell 16.1%.

For more information about the purposes and advantages of the UCR and the NCVS, see The Nation's Two Crime Measures.

Link here:

Ether Florida or Texas did a study of the states license holders and did indeed found that only 20% carried fulltime, and right now we have 6 million license holders, so that means only approx 1,200,000 carry every day

Where Will You Need Your Gun? By Tom Givens

Many, many people, including some who should know better, mistakenly believe that your home is the most likely place for one to need to use a defensive firearm. To me, this premise is obviously incorrect, so why do so many people believe it?

The answer is simple. Whether you read the newspaper, search the internet, or watch TV news, most of the legitimate self defense stories occur in the defender’s home. Since most of the defensive incidents you become aware of happened in the defender’s home, you begin to become convinced that the home is where most attacks take place. There is a ridiculously easy explanation for why the home is so overrepresented in these reports.
According to various studies, about half of the households in the United States contain firearms. So, when at home, 50% of the US population has access to guns. Conversely, only 3% of the population has a handgun carry permit, so the vast majority of the US population does not have access to firearms when away from the home. Duh….. If you don’t have access to a firearm when attacked, you will not be able to defend yourself with a firearm. So, the only reason the majority of successful defensive gun uses occur in the home is that is the only place most people have access to a gun. Simple.

In fact, you are far more likely to be attacked in a life-threatening manner away from home. Thus, one should be armed whenever one is away from home. That is the purpose of a carry permit and skill with a personal sidearm—the sidearm is the weapon carried away from home. To illustrate, here are some statistics from the United States Department of Justice, looking at Robbery Locations for the year 2007:

Street- 43.8%
Commercial- 13.9%
Residence- 15.2%
Banks- 2.1%
Gas station- 2.6%
Miscellaneous- 16.8%.

So, you are almost three times as likely to be robbed on the street than at home, and in the home only accounts for 1 robbery in 6. Similar patterns exist for rape, aggravated assaults, etc. In fact, good locks, an alarm system, and proper lighting can reduce your risk of violent crime at home to very low levels.
Once you leave your home, though, you have no control over such items. The one thing you can control is having your emergency safety equipment with you, so you can respond to emergencies that occur away from home.

And This:
Criminal Victimization, 2009
Michael Rand, Jennifer Truman

October 13, 2010 NCJ 231327

Presents the annual estimates of rates and levels of violent crime (rape or sexual assault, robbery, aggravated assault, and simple assault), property crime (burglary, motor vehicle theft, and property theft), and personal theft (pocket picking and purse snatching). This report describes the year-to-year change from 2008 and trends for the 10-year period from 2000 through 2009. The National Criminal Victimization Survey (NCVS) collects information on nonfatal crimes, reported and not reported to the police, against persons age 12 or older from a nationally representative sample of U.S. households. During 2009, 38,728 households and 68,665 individuals were interviewed twice for the NCVS. This report also includes data on the characteristics of victims of crime; estimates of intimate partner violence; and use of firearms and other weapons during the crime.

Highlights include the following:
An estimated 4.3 million violent crimes, 15.6 million property crimes, and 133,000 personal thefts were committed against U.S. residents age 12 or older in 2009.

Violence against males, blacks, and persons age 24 or younger occurred at higher or somewhat higher rates than the rates of violence against females, whites, and persons age 25 or older in 2009.

About half (49%) of all violent crimes and about 40% of all property crimes were reported to the police in 2009. Violent crimes against females (53%) were more likely to be reported than violent crimes against males (45%).

Offenders used firearms to commit 8% of violent crime incidents in 2009. (344,000) (So 800,000 times a year guns are used to stop crime is dwarfed?)

Part of the Criminal Victimization Series
 About the Source Data
National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS)

To cite this product, use the following link:

Surprised he send a reply

This is where we came in.
You're conflating property crime
with violent crime.

Again, I'm confident most
crimes foiled by guns are
the former.


My Response:
Show me your numbers

4,300,000 Violent Crimes, Firearms used in 8%

800,000 to 2,500,000 Defensive Gun Uses Depending on which study you use

So show me where the majority were to stop property crime

His reply: (Feb 9th)
Well, if I were Gun Czar, I'd let people
have shotguns, rifles and revolvers.
Semi-auto weapons, having no valid
civilian use, would be reserved for
cops and soldiers.

Background checks would be enhanced
and universal--meaning gun shows and
private sales. Penalties would be
enforced. Persons who illegally sold
weapons later used in crimes would
suffer penalties.

You can't transfer ownership of a car
without title. You shouldn't be able
to transfer guns. I'm aware of the
paranoid fear that licensing will lead
to confiscation, although it's something
most concealed carry fans forget
when they want to.

None of these things would change
the world overnight, but in time they'd
lessen the carnage without trampling
anybody's legitimate rights.

But of course I'm not Gun Czar, so
most of this--especially the first part--
will ever happen.


1 comment:

Anonymous said...

What a great example of "logic"

"Show me proof!"

"If I were Czar I would live ALL my time in fantasy land."